infinite velocity?

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zoldos

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So it's been proven that the faster you travel, the slower time elapses. This blows me away. Very trippy. It's also generally believed that if you were somehow able to reach light speed, time would stop for you. So, does that mean you'd technically being traveling at infinite velocity since no time is elapsing for you? Think about it, you'd reach any destination in 0 time, right?

And speaking of which, why is light speed 300,000 kilometers per second? Why is it that exact speed? What propels it? Why doesn't it slow down or speed up according to modern physics?

@SpookyZalost
 

SpookyZalost

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@zoldos Relative to the traveler yes.

Photons experience no time from the moment they leave a distant star billions of years ago to the moment they reach our eyes.

Relative to an outside observer, no.

Light speed is a hard limit which due to an unknown force prevents anything from traveling faster than it without altering conditions within the local space/time continuum (see warp drive, worm hole, space folding, etc.).

more interestingly there are regions where light speed is slower than escape velocity, such as the event horizon of a quantum singularity (Black hole).

in fact there are places in the universe where such regions are larger than our own star system. the Super massive black hole TON 618 has an event horizon so large it is measured in light years. to put it into perspective. Our SOLAR SYSTEM, is as small relative to it, as our planet is to our sun.

Now how could this be possible? well it has nothing to do with gravity. if it was gravity this would be true before the collapse.

instead this is due to the space/time distortion. You can think of a singularity as a hole in 4+ dimensions. it looks like a spherical region to us because a greater than 3 dimensional hole is a sphere in 3 dimensional space. (see Cube vs Hypercube Vs Square)

Effectively though, the space within that event horizon is warped to always point inward preventing anything from escaping so it really has a lot less to do with escape velocity and more to do with the local space/time.

given this is the case though, that there are ways around this whole speed of light limit.

You could shorten the distance via a wormhole, or folding space and jumping across because the distance you travel is relatively small compared to going through everything in between, like folding up a map and leaping between the peaks.

You could take advantage of causality. Space/time has little to no mass, so it's not really affected by whatever is limiting photons from that universal speed limit. For example, the space between galaxies is actually causing them to accelerate faster than the photons traveling between them. Most of the galaxies you see in the night sky, have already passed beyond a kind of visual horizon, the edge of our visible universe. We're already in the dark age of the universe and don't even know it.

Without FTL travel, we will never be able to reach anything beyond our local cluster, because they are simply moving faster than we could ever go. This is where a warp drive comes in. If you create a pocket or bubble of space around yourself, the ship never moves, the space around it does just as the universe pushes things apart faster than light, so too can we travel faster than the speed of light inside an artificial pocket of space/time.

So is the speed of light Infinite velocity. Only from the perspective of the traveler, and only if you're moving through normal space time. Once you move beyound that things get kinda crazy. btw warp drives aren't affected by relativistic time dilation which is the effect you're describing. because while the space/time is moving, the object is at rest and not affected relative to any localized distortion caused by the warp bubble/region.

Some great ways to do this are a warp bubble, a Soliton wave where you surf an artificially created wave in space/time (might be a great way to get away form a singularity since they're constantly putting out natural waves like this via gravitational sheer and rotation, see kerr singularity). And of course you could use such fields to prop up a wormhole and travel that way. Travel into higher dimensions. And even as crazy as it sounds, to leave our region of the multi/metaverse. The scariest theory has to do with the unknown beyound what theories can guess at. how do you maintain local constants in a region with different rules and laws... well you might be able to with a warp bubble, but once you leave it you're subject to the rules of wherever you are.
 

SpookyZalost

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I wanted to add one more thing that occurred to me a while back when I was thinking about a black hole being a kind of inverse tesseract.

So if a Black hole is a tesseracted hole in space/time. Predictions of the event horizon make more and more sense.

for example. a tesseract in 3 dimensions looks like this:

1646954031059.png

In reality that's the shadow cast by it. but in the same way a black hole is doing the same thing to space/time. the Event horizon is the shadow of the Inverse Tesseract. I say inverse because rather than being a shape at the center it's a kind of hole, a point where space/time is being pulled towards it.

to enter within that shadow (the event horizon), means you enter within that distorted space/time. because it exists in more than 3 dimensions it's possible for it to pull on higher spatial dimensions and make it so all paths for photons to take to always curve back inward since they're 3 dimensional objects traveling along a 3 dimensional space/time which is curved inward no matter which way you travel. You'll always end up heading back towards the center.

The only way I can think of to escape would be to warp or manipulate these dimensions to allow yourself a point where the 3rd dimensional path is consistently away from the center.

keep in mind it's also pulling the space/time around it in the direction of rotation per the recently discovered evidence of Kerr Singularities. This means the tesseract is rotating and pulling on the surrounding space/time as it bends thing inwards. if you orbit a black hole you need to constantly adjust your direction in 3rd dimensional space/time or your straight line will always be pulled towards the center.

It's that kind of thinking that allows for breaking that speed of light rule and is how to get around the whole Time dilation aspect of things.

in theory a singularity should have infinite time dilation relative to the surrounding space/time. This has the effect of creating a kind of virtual particle creation known as hawking radiation where a particle and it's anti-particle are created on the surface of that tesseracted space/time. Much like how you can steal power from a singularity by taking advantage of it's rotation, these particles also bleed off that mass because they're paired and so when one falls in the other escapes thus the singularity loses more mass as energy through this radiation of particles.

When you fall in, the entire event horizon becomes visible because you're traversing the tesseracted space/time. you see in 360 degrees from the event horizon as you fall inward. It makes sense when you consider how tesseracts look to a 3rd dimensional viewer, at least the shadow.

the inside becomes the outside, which becomes the inside, like it's turning it's self inside out constantly along an unknown axis. Space/time is essentially doing this inside the horizon meaning you can go as fast as you want but if you stay tied to 3 dimensions you can't escape.

Crazier still is that you can take advantage of this distortion of things to travel backwards along time/space because they become inverted.

so if you could slingshot around a kerr singularity at the right trajectory you could leave before you arrived without violating causality or relativity. Because the distortion is not contained to the vent horizon but also the surrounding ergosphere where space/time is being dragged inwards.

you just have to travel widdershins (against the flow), and the distortion should theoretically create enough of an effect to dilate time until it inverts like the interior creating a temporal reverse effect for the outside observer allowing them to travel backwards while the inside observer remains in their normal flow of time. This is all assuming you can at least construct a warp field/bubble/manipulate local space/time however.

1646954953160.png
 
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Leviathan
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Are you a physicist? hehe I feel like I'm reading a book on astrophysics. Where did you learn this stuff? And I understand what you are saying. Very interesting indeed, esp. time travel without breaking causality.
 

SpookyZalost

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Are you a physicist? hehe I feel like I'm reading a book on astrophysics. Where did you learn this stuff? And I understand what you are saying. Very interesting indeed, esp. time travel without breaking causality.
Nah, I'm an citizen scientist and amature engineer with an interest in astrobiology and astrophysics actually.

but mostly I learned about it due to my own interests, I keep up to date on all sorts of articles and research on a wide range of things. Mostly because my goal is to understand on a fundamental level how Everything works. I want to be able to look at something, inherently grasp the basics of it, and figure out how to make it better or solve a problem it's causing in short order.

It is by no means an easy goal, nor one with a clear finish line but one I'm always working towards.

I may or may not have gone so mad I became sane again a while ago... I don't really recall it so well after I stopped being shocked by the constant eureka moments lol.

but I'm always learning new stuff. to me Kerr singularities are kind of a fascinating topic because of all the crazy stuff they allow.

but more importantly they have a clearly defined shape in that the rotation creates a kind of ring or torus rather than a single point within the distortion.
 
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Leviathan
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Wicked. I used to follow Quantum Mechanics almost exclusively starting with a book about super strings my parents got me when I was sick in the hospital in the early 90's. I loved it and sought out more! I consider myself having a technical mind and thought process. I refuse to just accept things and must understand them. Esp. when it comes to such notions of reality and the basis of consciousness. Fascinating stuff!

I'm also heavily into computers and love just about any tech.

Please post whatever thoughts and ideas you have on any subject you like! I'm really enjoying our discourse. :D
 
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zoldos

zoldos

Leviathan
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@SpookyZalost Another thought I have: If somehow a person could achieve infinite velocity, would they occupy all points of the universe at once? Or just fly in a straight line? And if just straight ahead, would you hit anything, like the edge of the universe?
 

SpookyZalost

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@SpookyZalost Another thought I have: If somehow a person could achieve infinite velocity, would they occupy all points of the universe at once? Or just fly in a straight line? And if just straight ahead, would you hit anything, like the edge of the universe?
You simply can't achieve infinite velocity. At least not in that sense.

You can move fast enough that time for you is frozen due to time dilation. Thus your relative time experienced is zero. But for the outside world time would pass normally.

If you go faster than light and can avoid time dilation then you're simply going faster.

There is no true infinite velocity. Merely sufficient time dilation for the observer within it.
 
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That's awesome!! Another question, what would someone observe in their surroundings travelling at near, or at light speed? And if you are chasing a beam of light, no matter how fast you go, you can't catch up? Why?
 

SpookyZalost

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That's awesome!! Another question, what would someone observe in their surroundings travelling at near, or at light speed? And if you are chasing a beam of light, no matter how fast you go, you can't catch up? Why?

As you accelerate near the speed of light a few things would happen. First, you'd start picking up cherenkov radiation. Second, everything in your direction of travel would be blue shifted while everything behind you would be redshifted. this is because you're accelerating so fast that it's altering how photons can get to you.

Eventually as you near the speed of light your field of vision would change too, you'd be able to see beyond your normal field of vision because those photons are also getting to your eyes when normally they'd move past, this would give almost a fisheye lens effect. the faster you go, the more this happens until you can look ahead of you and see behind you as well as in front of you, and side to side. like looking in one direction and having a 360 degree field of vision.

everything would merge together and become a bright point of light ahead of you as you reach 99 percent light speed. in all other directions it would be black because no photons could reach you.

sorta like when they jump to hyperspace in starwars. but this is where most near light speed depictions in fiction fall short.

It's sorta like falling into a black hole, only in this case the photons aren't being curved inwards but instead being intercepted by your eyes before they can reach their destination.

obviously at these velocities, visual sensors are rather useless. I'd recommend gravitational wave based ones.

zzNODUv.png
 
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Very interesting!! Another posit I've often wondered about is what would you see as you fell into a black hole both right before, then after you cross the event horizon?

And what about gravitational time dilation? I watched a sci-fi show where a starship approached a back hole, and to the observers outside, the ship appeared to "stop" right at the boundry of the event horizon. Then it remained this way for hundreds of years until a salvage ship "towed" it back to normal space.

Is this even possible?
 

SpookyZalost

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Very interesting!! Another posit I've often wondered about is what would you see as you fell into a black hole both right before, then after you cross the event horizon?

And what about gravitational time dilation? I watched a sci-fi show where a starship approached a back hole, and to the observers outside, the ship appeared to "stop" right at the boundry of the event horizon. Then it remained this way for hundreds of years until a salvage ship "towed" it back to normal space.

Is this even possible?
That is pretty accurate based on current theories.

so here's what would happen. first, from the outside, you would appear to stop at or very near the event horizon. your image would then become more and more redshifted until it vanishes as it shifts further into the deep infrared.

as for the observer. you would fall in, much like with traveling near the speed of light you'd see the photons curving as the universe around you distorts along the event horizon. you'd be surrounded by black except for the singularity in front of you and a 360 degree view compressed behind you. as you fall in you would be torn apart on a molecular level, the gravitational shear breaking you down into smaller and smaller pieces, the heat vaporizing you until nothing remains except the energy and elementary particles that was once you matter.

that being said, the bigger the black hole, the longer this would take to happen. with a regular stellar mass black hole it'd happen at or near the event horizon.

with a supermassive one? you'd survive the event horizon for some time before you started to feel the severe effects of gravity on your body.

Now in theory with a warp drive you could traverse the singularity, however the further in you go, the harder it would be to escape because space it's self is curved inward so finding a path out without uncurving space using the warp drive would be the biggest hurdle.

what's more interesting is that recent evidence indicates that singularities aren't a single point but a ring having been made due to the extreme rotation they suffer from compressing down while maintaining their rotation they had as a large stellar mass object.
 
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I read in an astrophysics book some time ago that if you could somehow see the outside environment as you fell past the event horizon (which doesn't seem possible, but if you could) that you'd witness the entire future of the universe progress in an instant. Have you ever heard of this?
 

SpookyZalost

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I read in an astrophysics book some time ago that if you could somehow see the outside environment as you fell past the event horizon (which doesn't seem possible, but if you could) that you'd witness the entire future of the universe progress in an instant. Have you ever heard of this?
That's because of the time dilation you'd experience inside the anomaly. Space/time is so distorted you'd experience the same passage of time a photon would.
 
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